ALL CHANGE AT THE HOHO CORRAL!!

Zora McCartney
An insight into the last couple of weeks events with the hope that you may understand a little better the drastic action Paul and I undertook. If you would rather not hear any more about it - please go to the top right hand corner of the post and click 'hide post'.

Lizzy knew about the fake accounts that waleed admitted to by Aug 3 at the latest when I told her here in this pm:
3 August

03:18
Zora McCartney
if yuo look on the comments on this link <<link removed>> and go down to 21 July you will see Waleed Al-Uzaizi I just added a bunch of my aliases from margeret rogers to Sam stokes lol
21 July at 23:19 · Like
Waleed Al-Uzaizi see if you can spot fakes hehe
21 July at 23:20 · Like · 1

Now at the time I did find it odd but nobody else seemed to bat and eyelid and also he was grieving so i sort of put it down to that. he was pm'ing me at the time rather excitedly asking what i thought and telling me that one of the pics he uses is his ex-wife!! Which he uses without her knowledge. I really didnn't know what to make of it tbh. Turns out Frances didn't know. she does now and is thinking the worst. I really don't think he's a pro at all but these 9 accounts are his former pro aliases. What I found odd is that he told us all he stopped believing and being pro McCann within the first year BUT some of these accounts are from 2010!! Pop Up Toaster, Suzi Kelly, Luna Pearce, Alan Suter, Sam Stokes, Gina Ginetty and more all added on 21/7. Sorry i didn't bring it up before, i really thought everyone knew, although i was puzzled as to why noone said anything. i feel a littel annoyed with myself for mentioning it is a pro mole. I'd prefer to think absolutely NOT of course and hope that perhaps he is just needing a break. Anyhow, I just thought you should know about these fake (former pro mccann) acounts. I'm honestly not trying to get one over on Waleed whatsoever but now that i've discussed this with Frances and realised how serious it could be I thought I should tell you. You'll find those accounts all added on 21 July. I don't think he's done anything with them or even intends to but it is bizarre and what if he DID intend to do something with them? all at the same time? oh one other thing - one of the accounts is a gina ginetty. his old pro name was ginO ginetty...for someone who claims to not want his identity discovered by pros it seems a little careless. But I don't know. It could all be quite innocent. So much for me being brief eh? Lol. I'm sorry I didn't bring it up sooner Lizzy. and i really hope you know Im not being vindictive or getting personal but all together it all looks a bit odd you know? anyway,,,,i'll leave it with you. I must sleep. Night xxx

03:21
Zora McCartney
9 fake accounts in total

03:21
Lizzy Hideho Taylor
well thanks Zora...

NOTE: That was in the early hours of Sat Aug 3rd. In the early hours of Monday Aug 5th, a member (who had been added by Waleed on the 3rd ) added more than 20 “friends” to the group. The member in question had a lot in common with W's fake accounts (same games, even the obscure ones, same spelling errors, odd punctuation and same ambiguous posts). Later that morning, a Carol Arden asked to join the group and Frances accepted. I pm'd her and told her it was one of his accounts HERE:

15:40
Zora McCartney
Hi Frances. Did waleed mention? Carol arden is one of his accounts. That's his ex wife in the pic! Hope there's some explanation and he's told you or lizzy. Know I'm on hols but recognised the pic straight away. Let me know if I need to tell lizzy xx

16:01
Frances Gallagher
Oh he has just tol me that it is an alter ego an I don't think that Lizzy likes that ..am not comfortable with it myself,
Oh I don't know ....he will leave if the subject is broached in admin ...very hard for me to decide what to do in that it is wrong but he will lose it if told so

17:20
Zora McCartney
At least he's told you I suppose. I don't know if he remembers sending me the link to that profile before. I thought about pm'ing him but things are rocky enough between us. It is odd though and imagine the pros were to find out he was using someone's pic without their permission? Not too impressed with that myself. I dunno what's for the best....might try to forget about it til I get home. Bizarre

17:22
Frances Gallagher
I on't get it .,he seems to think there is nothing wrong with it ..he is 61 what is he doing with fake profiles?
I o believe he is anti ...but after that I cannot figure him out ..why would he bother mess around on the net like that
maybe it is best that we tell him we don't want anyone using socks?

17:29
Zora McCartney
It is very strange. Maybe he just has a sense of mischief? Or trying to help by adding to the numbers? He seemed quite excited the night that he added loads. Maybe we'll have to tell him or even tell him he should make sure Lizzy knows and then she can tell him when he does ? How to go about it tactfully though? That's the questioN

LATER THAT EVENING, Alan Suter (who we know to be one of Waleed's fakes) posted on a thread started by the same suspect id that had added lots of accounts the previous night. Again, I pm'd Frances HERE:

10:06
Zora McCartney
Hi Frances, you know Alan Suter is Waleed? What is he playing at??I'm going to pm him later, then he can't say i've gone behind his back. Want to tell Paul but I'm kinda stuck. It might look personal after the gypsy thread thing. But I'll pm Waleed and try to keep it friendly as possible but I'll point out how awful it would be if the pros or anybody at all found out that an admin here had added at least 10 other accounts and was now commenting with at least one of them!! Talk to you later x

10:21
Zora McCartney
Well I've done it....Zora McCartney
hi Waleed, how are you?
I noticed you added that account with the pic of your ex wife.. I recognised the pic straight away. Also, Alan Suter, that's one of yours right? Do the others know? I just wondered cos it would be an absolute nightmare if the pros were to find out an admin here had 10 or 11 accounts and was using some of them to post. You know what I mean? I don't want to poke my nose in. Maybe the others do know all about it. But I was just kinda puzzled and thought I'd ask you.
Probably gonna have to tell Paul and certainly Lizzy but will wait and see what he comes back with. This really is putting us in an awkward position and i feel bad about not saying anything to Paul yet. Anyway, let's wait and see x

11:51
Frances Gallagher
Well done ...that takes some guts ..I didn't know that Alan Suter was his too .He made a long post yesterday ...That has to be brought to Lizzy's attention ..that makes it a lot more serious. Let me know what he says.
Have a good day xx

14:01
Frances Gallagher
Am gobsmacked ..but don't remember him saying, He is removing ALL his accounts from our group ...he did it to make the numbers up to 2000 ..I cannot remember him saying that ..,but probably would have thought he was joking ..obviously Lizzy did not comment either.. He sees nothing wrong with it, .Well well done, ,,you got him to remove them xx

15:46
Zora McCartney
Yeah it's all very strange. I told him i wasn't trying to tell him what to do - you saw what i said to him - but i get the feeling he's not very happy with me - again. He said he was going to announce in admin chat that alan was him. He says he used it cos he didn't think it would look good for an admin to write such a satirical post. I've told him he should think about telling lizzy so it's all out in the open and should also tell her that he's using the carol account to infiltrate (his word not mine) unite. Heaven help us if anyone finds that out. Depends if he's told anyone else and if they're trustworthy i suppose. He says he put all the names in admin. He didn't but he did say he'd added 9 accounts and asked if we could spot them. Who knows? Maybe he thinks he was doing good. I feel so awkward now. Will be best if he tells lizzy himself xx

15:50
Frances Gallagher
he does say he posted it in admin ,,I don't remember it ..I just don't get where he is coming from that he does not admit it is wrong. I responded to Alan's post ..so that is twice he hoodwinked me. ..I know lizzy is big into being able to trust admin ...maybe you should run it by Paul first?

16:01
Zora McCartney
I can send you the link later when I'm on the laptop. I saw last night you had responded something like "i like you Alan" and it made me so angry but i didn't want to tell you as it was late and i didn't want to stress you out any more. Then i thought about pm'ing paul but again it was late and I was tired. Should let him know though. I just don't know how friendly he is with him so I'll have to give it some careful thought on how i word it. Doesn't feel right keeping it from him though. I knew straight away when he said in admin chat that a friend had joined unite that it was him. Maybe he assumed everyone else did. OR maybe he didn't realise what a good memory I've got! Lol. Bloody nightmare. That's us home now. Just a short break. Off for a snooze now so see you later on xx
16:06
Frances Gallagher
It is a hard one for you ...but to me it is very clear. ..he tried to pull the wool over my eyes with first Carol and then Andy ...so all trust is gone .I think tell paul an if he decides that Lizzy needs to be told it is out of your hands. .Just pass the decision over to him ..Paul may not think it is so serious..I just think that the fake profiles on top of his meltdown and personal vendetta against Dan ..shows he is not admin material.. imo

16:12
Zora McCartney
Well exactly. How are we to know he doesn't have a load of other fake profiles in the group? He's seen my last pm but no response as yet. I'll pm Paul after i get up xx

16:14
Frances Gallagher
well 10 fake profiles is bizarre. Why did he create themg.........

......16:22
Zora McCartney
He says they were from his pro days as they all had lots of profiles. Even then you have to wonder why he held onto them

16:25
Frances Gallagher
yes. Where did he post as a pro? If he is so dishonest how do we know he is not a pro still? Though his profile is real

20:55
Frances Gallagher
I dont know whats going on with him. Only thing that is comforting is that he is using a real account now

7 August

15:14
Frances Gallagher
Hope you are okay. You shouldnt have to deal with this on your break. Think Waleed needs to go but Dan needs to set the record straight x

15:15
Zora McCartney
Yes on both counts. I'm so stressed out. Still haven't told Paul. Think I'll send him a quick pm now x

15:16
Frances Gallagher
Oh I think he knows .he asked how he saw Dan's post
I think Lizzy won't trust Waleed either

15:19
Zora McCartney
Hi Paul. I'll pm you later. Need a break! In a tricky spot re waleed and recent activity on some of his multiple id's. Have discussed it with him by pm and suggested he should fess up. Sorry for keeping it from you. Needed to be sure in my own mind it wasn't personal. I'll send you details later. But if the pros or ANYONE gets wind of it we're fucked

15:19
Zora McCartney
So
Let's hope waleed confesses all

15:20
Frances Gallagher
I think he will flounce

15:20
Zora McCartney
Hope so!

15:20
Frances Gallagher
For sure he will
You are better off letting it all out rather than let it fester

15:26
Zora McCartney
I know. I'm going to pm the details to paul later. Don't really want to expose him in admin chat but it may yet come to that

15:28
Frances Gallagher
I think it all needs to come out to clear the air

NOTE: As you can see, Frances was very supportive and saw the need to get it out in the open and try to understand why all the fake accounts.

LATER THAT EVENING (Wed 7th Aug) as we were discussing a contentious admin decision from the previous weekend HERE

20:37
Zora McCartney
i don't want to keep arguing about it
i want to talk about Carol Arden

20:38
Waleed Al-Uzaizi
but u are

20:39
Zora McCartney
Lizzy i was hoping that waleed would have told you and he may well have done...
but i feel we all need to discuss Waleed's recent activity with his fake accounts

20:40
Waleed Al-Uzaizi
nothing major but had moments I felt decisions were hasty

20:40
Zora McCartney
I'm really sorry about this but it is really important.
Lizzy?

20:41
Waleed Al-Uzaizi
I announced in this chat that I have at least 10 accounts from over 5 years ago and named them in chat here
now Zora you are being childish

20:42
Zora McCartney
Now you are using a fake account with your ex-wife's pic - without her knowledge - to infiltrate Unite.
Does Lizzy know this? What if the pros or unite get a hold of THAT?
Sorry Waleed but it is alarming

20:43
Waleed Al-Uzaizi
yes I used Carol to check if united were talking about us and came right bk to assure you unite were not discussing us

20:43
Zora McCartney
Alan Suter

Waleed Al-Uzaizi
Zora I know you dont like me because sweet Dan got banned

20:45
Zora McCartney
you also joined this group as Carol and let Frances add you before you told her who you were, then you commented as Alan Suter the same night

20:45
Waleed Al-Uzaizi
90% of our members are using a fake account

20:45
Zora McCartney
Frances said ' i think i like you alan' so hoodwinked for a 2nd time

20:45
Waleed Al-Uzaizi
including sweet Dan

20:45
Zora McCartney
please don't insult me with the sweet dan stuff
i've struggled over the last 2 days with this and that IS an insult
Pop Up Toaster
Luna Pearce
Volvo Man
Dan Summers
Damian Stewart

20:47
Waleed Al-Uzaizi
sorry 2 are mine and were announced here on chat others might be urs or Dans

20:48
Zora McCartney
another thing
you said these are accounts from your pro day - which you say were over 5 yrs ago
yet some of them are from 2008 and 2009
sorry 2010
you should have taken my advice and told everyone yourself but this couldn't wait any longer

20:51
Waleed Al-Uzaizi
so some where some where to play mafia wars and frontierville lol so what

20:51
Zora McCartney
it's not personal but we can't have a) admin deceiving each other b)admin infiltrating other groups certainly not without Lizzy's express permission
an d to be honest i'm too tired and fed up of this to continue. I hope the others can see where i'm coming from. The pros or anyone get hold of an admin adding a load of his own fake profiles AND commenting AND joining other groups incognito...then we're up shit creek
Paul I'm sorry I couldn't wait for you to get back
would rathre we were all here

20:54
Paul Rees
Just catching up guys... ********** who has asked to join - sounds familiar, has she been with us before?

20:54
Waleed Al-Uzaizi
seriously how old are you Zora because your acting like a child .. Im sorry Dan got banned but he deserved it and you are bitter

20:54
Zora McCartney
think so
IT'S NOTHING TO DO WITH DAN

20:55
Paul Rees
She is not Waleed!

20:55
Waleed Al-Uzaizi
Its all to do with Dan

20:55
Zora McCartney
no Waaleed. Let's talk some more about YOU
and your fake adcounts
please assure us that you removed them all and that there are no more that we don't know about
FORGET the gypsy thread and stop using it as a distraction

20:57
Waleed Al-Uzaizi
look I really havnt time for all this so I quit will also remove myself from group .. maybe now ora you can get Dan back and with enough luck as Admin

7 August Waleed Al-Uzaizi left the conversation.

20:58
Zora McCartney
so you won't talk about it?
sorry everyone. couldn't keep it in any longer
i'm still really concerned about his accounts and what he could be doing with them

21:00
Frances Gallagher
I was going to get involved just at that point ...but I knew you needed to get that off your chest

21:01
Zora McCartney
well it seemed silly to keep going over the gypsy thread when it was academic anyway
but i'm sorry if i went about it the wrong way

21:02
Frances Gallagher
No ..there was no right way
except to let it all out

I knew it was burdening you,

21:03
Paul Rees
Hells bells - are you OK Zora?

21:03
Zora McCartney
i think so

21:03
Paul Rees
That was a lot to shoulder alone x

21:03
Zora McCartney
he was making me angry
could you tell?
lol
yeah it's been so awkward coming on the back of the deletions, then Dan

21:04
Paul Rees
I was there with you! When he dared call you childish!!!
Just like a pro would!

21:04
Zora McCartney
YES!!

21:05
Frances Gallagher
yes.. I knew too Paul ,,but I can't get my head around it ..thought there had to be a reasonable explanation
but I was starting to feel uneasy.......

.......21:05
Paul Rees
There clearly isn't...

21:05
Zora McCartney
how long after 'Carol' Joined did he tell you?

21:06
Frances Gallagher
Thats what I cannot believe ..He got personal when you told him what you knew
about a day or two ..maybe longer

21:06
Zora McCartney
he wouldn't have told me...but probably didn't bank on me remembering the ex wife pic
still in unite btw

21:07
Frances Gallagher
Well I wouldn't have copped on to that..really? Not on ..we don't need a spy there
and the Alan one?

21:07
Paul Rees
OMFG. He has just msgd me to say he's left the group?

21:07
Zora McCartney
he has
i just looked
do you think Lizzy will be angry with me?

21:08
Frances Gallagher
no Zora ...

21:08
Paul Rees
NO WAY

21:08
Frances Gallagher
definitely not
I support you 100%

21:08
Zora McCartney
thank god

21:08
Paul Rees
Discussed this morning, right behind you

21:09
Zora McCartney
cos i took a bit of a risk there

21:09
Paul Rees
What a delicate situation for you!!!

21:09
Zora McCartney
but had to be done

21:32
Paul Rees
Well done Zora x

21:33
Frances Gallagher
indeed Zora. .Respect xx

21:33
Zora McCartney
Thanks Paul. and i am sorry i didn't talk to you about it sooner
we're having a tough old time of it

21:36
Paul Rees
Yes but this couldn't wait so well done x

**Later that evening**

Conversation started 7 August

23:41
Lizzy Hideho Taylor
so Zoara....you feeling ok?

23:42
Zora McCartney
yes
i'm fine
was a bit stressful figuring out what to do about it

23:42
Lizzy Hideho Taylor
goodo...can u sleep ok tonight?

23:42
Zora McCartney
but it's done now

23:43
Lizzy Hideho Taylor
always deal with issues or they stay inside you and you get angry with toothpaste tubes...lol

23:43
Zora McCartney
yes and hopefully get back to the group. i've felt a little off re Waleed ever since he added those accounts so it's a relief

23:43
Lizzy Hideho Taylor
so are they all deleted/

23:44
Zora McCartney
the ones we know about

23:46
Lizzy Hideho Taylor
i hadnt forgotten zora...

NOTE: The above happened on Wed 7th Aug. I spent the next couple of days following the trails and trying to get a handle on exactly how many accounts he had which as an impossible task. I thought the best course of action would be to try to identify the accounts that were still in the group.

8 August ADMIN CHAT

07:21
Zora McCartney
I just want to be able to get back to the group a bit more again without all this distarction
i would like to keep researching Waleed's possible aliases but it's too big a job for one person
but i'll try to compose something. something concise so we all know what to look out for
Martin Rodriguez makes the same spelling mistakes and punctuates in the same slightly odd way
but i'll see what i can dig up, put it in admin and try to move on

07:32
Lizzy Hideho Taylor
ok...i have asked him outright to be honest with me...lets see what he says...he will then know that if I find he has lied that trust has gone...Dont use your precious time for now Zora...lets see what he tells me...

07:34
Zora McCartney

07:34
Zora McCartney
ok....well he should have been honest with you about the fake accounts, about infiltrating unite etc

9Aug
18:33
Zora McCartney
I will post re Martin Rodriguez at the very least this evening
The others he seems to try to change his style somewhat but Martin is VERY similar
WalMart

18:34
Lizzy Hideho Taylor
Oqk..lets focus on him and see if it is waleed first

18:35
Zora McCartney
He's the most regular poster of those I've come across so far
********** is distinct possibility too but I'll deal with Martin first. May be a couple of hours though. Should have posted something by now but been so busy

NOTE: Unfortunately, we can't share the Rodriguez evidence itself or any other as that information will be forwarded to police along with the information on fraudulent use of fund money posted here the other day but I can show fellow admins' reaction to the evidence I compiled HERE:

Out of all the suspected aliases, Martin is closest to Waleed. There's hardly anything on his profile which is unusual compared to his other fake accounts who have hundreds of friends and lots of games and likes

There's more on so many other people but i'll leave it he for now
Like · · Unfollow Post · Saturday at 08:47
Seen by 3
Paul Rees likes this.

Paul Rees You are << brilliant >>
Saturday at 09:30 · Unlike · 1

Lizzy Hideho Taylor Great work Zora!
Saturday at 10:09 · Unlike · 2

Zora McCartney Nailed!...NEXT!! lol
Saturday at 10:11 · Like · 1

Paul Rees That ***** woman!
Saturday at 10:18 · Unlike · 1

Frances Gallagher That's a fake profile for sure. I often wondered why a kid of his age would be interested in the McCann case and now I see he has no friends and his only wall posts are about the McCann case. I think that Martin has been here longer than Waleed?
Saturday at 10:31 · Unlike · 2

Frances Gallagher It seems that he is still opening new accounts .This has to be Waleed [I got a friend request from him] – link removed
Saturday at 11:48 · Like

Zora McCartney a user on *** pro forum called ***: ' wot a shower of scammers , wannabees and nutters . ' and 'Sounds like the lifeboats are gonna be launched , admin's got her escape plan sorted . wonder what's rattled her cage ?' SAME punctuation. will look for more on *** tomorrow
Saturday at 22:48 · Edited · Like

NOTE: By early Sat 10th Aug, everyone was in agreement that Martin was indeed Waleed.

10 August
09:37
Paul Rees
Zora you have set that out so brilliantly in admin... I'm 100% convinced

09:38
Lizzy Hideho Taylor
morrrning xx (4.38am here...lol)

09:38
Zora McCartney
morning
Martin Rodriguez evidence is in admin, Lizzy, when you're awake!

09:39
Lizzy Hideho Taylor
I'll have a check Xora...thanks for what you are doing... I will check the IPs and lets see if I can get the proof (havent yet checked the post but sounds good)
just working on a post..

10:06
Zora McCartney
I suspect ******, ****** and possibly ******* but haven't had time to lay them all out like I have with Martin

10:06
Lizzy Hideho Taylor
ok...let me finish reading your thingy

10:06
Zora McCartney
ok, I need to go and give the hire car back

10:06
Lizzy Hideho Taylor
well...i can maybe check without you going to that trouble if they are actively posting

10:07
Zora McCartney
****** has only posted once, ****** intermittently
but ****** has always looked a bit iffy. same kind of stuff as Martin

10:13
Lizzy Hideho Taylor
it will take me some time to set it up to check the IPs but you have done great groundwork Zora...thanks...xx

10:13
Zora McCartney
you're welcome. i'll keep at it

10:13
Lizzy Hideho Taylor
I have SPECIFICALLY asked him to be honest with me re the IDs....so...he will have me to deal with if I find the lied by omission...with PROOF...

11 Aug

11:58
Zora McCartney
Zora McCartney a user on ******forum called ******: ' wot a shower of scammers , wannabees and nutters . ' and 'Sounds like the lifeboats are gonna be launched , admin's got her escape plan sorted . wonder what's rattled her cage ?' SAME punctuation. will look for more on ***** tomorrow

11:59
Zora McCartney
not exactly conclusive but we should consider the possibility that he's a full on pro

12:00
Lizzy Hideho Taylor
its ok...im checking now..lol

12:00
Paul Rees
Yes looking that way.

12:01
Zora McCartney
best case scenario, he's an attention seeker with unhealthy interest in the group
but more likely he's a pro who's been with us for months and is still with us, everywhere

12:18
Zora McCartney
he's being allowed now to make fools of our members. when he posts as suter or rodriguez or whoever and gets likes and responses, like Frances did with suter, it's unfair on everyone who is here for earnest reasons
makes me angry
i did all that work on Rodriguez....yet he's still here

12:30
Zora McCartney
I don't see the point in me knocking my pan in, staying up till all hours doing it again if it's not enough. I'll put a list of names in admin, along with a brief outline of what to look for and leave it at that

12:39
Paul Rees
I agree - he needs to go.
In all his guises.
Sitting there ready for the trial.

12:40
Zora McCartney
i really don't think it would damage us so much to have a suspected troll cull
everyne knows we have trolls

12:47
Paul Rees
Yes and I believe they're here to take us down before the trial starts.......

.......12:47
Lizzy Hideho Taylor
Dont be banning any of them...i need to check the IPs..
i can tell who each of them are but need time

12:48
Zora McCartney
do you really need any more proof re rodriguez?

12:48
Lizzy Hideho Taylor
i can confirm...if they are gone I have lost the opportunity
i want the Ip yes

12:49
Zora McCartney
well in that case a list of names of possible aliases will be enough
a waste of many hours otherwise

12:50
Lizzy Hideho Taylor
as I said before...i dont want you spending all your time...just a couple that post wiill probably be enough
for now anyway...
im checking the info on their pages...its very technical and involved but its worth it in the end...

12:51
Zora McCartney
i won't spend any more time on it then. i just don't understand why we can't be tougher.
but i'll write up what i can later and leave it with you

12:51
Lizzy Hideho Taylor
and I need to get them to the stats page...then I can see for sure and ALSO it will show others...once I have the stats page then we can see
its not about tough,...its about proof...solid proof
and so easy to get the others and any future

12:53
Zora McCartney
we've been infiltrated to the highest level by a probable pro and he's taking the piss out of our members imo

12:53
Lizzy Hideho Taylor
please Zora...its important for the future as welll...

12:54
Paul Rees
We need to be troll free here or we're saving up horrendous problems for a manic time ahead IMO

12:55
Lizzy Hideho Taylor
you have done great work Zora...but have patience and i will always be able to tell...but bottom line is as long as group remains ok
exactly....so thats why I MUST start recording them in stats

12:56
Paul Rees
<< heavy sigh >>

12:56
Lizzy Hideho Taylor
i will be able to tell if any of them come back as someone else...surely THAT is important to you?

dont be giving me the sigh Paul..lol

12:57
Paul Rees
It is but I am worried they could attack us first?

12:57
Lizzy Hideho Taylor
unlike forums its not as easy to check ID/IPs but I can do it...and that is absolutely important but i need them close to get that info
Do you not realise that if you point me to a pro I can check them and log them and KNOW if they come back 9not the disruptive ones...they must go)
once I have them on the stats list it lists their name and if they come back it tells me

13:01
Paul Rees
Yes - but time is of the essence here as we don't know what they're planning to do. It could be too late if we fanny around getting all their ip addresses.

13:01
Lizzy Hideho Taylor
that will be priceless as far as I am concerned

13:02
Zora McCartney
i just thin it makes us look weak and vulnerable and if waleed is to leak the news himself - the pros do go on a lot about having someone on the iinside

13:02
Lizzy Hideho Taylor
so you ban them and they come back in the next hour as someone

else...that will not be helpful

13:02
Zora McCartney
yes i believe time IS of the essence too Paul
they'll always do that

13:03
Lizzy Hideho Taylor
we are not weak...its IMPORTANT to have control and not just battle our way through it

13:03
Zora McCartney
unless we have more rigorous standards

13:05
Lizzy Hideho Taylor
you list the trolls...ill check them and when we get new members i can find out BEFORE they join in if they are already banned
cant you see the benefit of that?

13:06
Paul Rees
Yes I can see the benefit but an you now see the risk?

13:07
Lizzy Hideho Taylor
well your method can be used later if we have to but WHILE we have time it is absolutely important to arm ourselves with secret weapons

13:08
Zora McCartney
but do we have time?

13:09
Lizzy Hideho Taylor
Im uncomfortable with the suggestion that I am acting 'weak' when in actual fact I have the tech knowledge to do whats best for us to give us control instead of just flailing around always wondering
well when will it be an issue?

13:09
Zora McCartney
i didn't say you were acting weak but if people know that we're harbouring trolls and allowing them to post - it may LOOK weak
it already is isn't it?

13:11
Lizzy Hideho Taylor
like I say....you tell me the trolls you want checked out and I can do it...it may take a day or two to set up..maybe less...but it can be almost immediate...why cant you see how valuable that can be?

13:11
Zora McCartney
i can but i think we're at risk in the meantime

13:12
Lizzy Hideho Taylor
at risk?
today?
tomorrow?

13:13
Zora McCartney
yes
if we have pro trolls here now...yes

13:13
Lizzy Hideho Taylor
so what can happen today?
im not talking about obvious disruptors
but i CAN get their info also as they will be back and giving you more work...what makes more sense?

13:15
Zora McCartney
they can change their IP as much as they change accounts though ?

13:15
Lizzy Hideho Taylor
yes...but the majority wont as they dont think we can check
they have no idea that i can pinpoint them

13:16
Zora McCartney
well you have rodriguez, and we know he has at the very least 12 accounts and probably many more and has probably been some of the trolls we've already booted

13:17
Lizzy Hideho Taylor
i already have lists of IPs

13:17
Zora McCartney
well, ******** and some of the people she added
*******
******* a possibility

13:18
Lizzy Hideho Taylor
well i will check rodriguez and see the details and how he matches with all the other IDs under suspicion and then WHAMO...
I feel sad that you dont have more trust in me...I managed to get a major disruptor TAKEN OFF THE INERNET...im not new at this

13:19
Zora McCartney
it's not about trust in you. i just feel we're vulnerable and they're taking the piss out of us

13:21
Lizzy Hideho Taylor
and Im telling you that Iwant the control of them...if we have to then we CAN use 'your' method...but Im not happy having the ability to take control and being told its not worthwhile...of course it is worthwhile

13:22
Paul Rees
But it is time consuming - could be too late.

13:22
Lizzy Hideho Taylor
its not an either/or situation...but I want to know WHO is joining when the trouble starts and if it at the expense of a few trolls right now...so be it...
they wont be let in until i have chcked them...or shortly after

13:23
Zora McCartney
i just feel it's so wrong that he's posted and our members have liked or responded in earnest. i was so angry when he posted as suter and frances was taken in

13:23
Lizzy Hideho Taylor
i understand...and I have dealt with that before
so i will try to sort it today/tomorrow as soon as I can and then we can DEAL with it
you have done great work Zora....lets take it to the end
and see exactly HOW many
I MAY be able to check FB IP's thats what I am doing right now
I have to ask you to trust me on this..but I have to be tricky and find the best way
i wont just get the IPS...i can often find out WHO people are
all above board and legit

now why wouldnt you consider that as important to the grop?
can u give me the link to rodrigues?

13:35
Zora McCartney
his profile?

13:35
Lizzy Hideho Taylor
yes

13:35
Paul Rees
Nobody's saying it's not important, but it will take time that we don't have

13:36
Lizzy Hideho Taylor
take time? to check each one?
it will take more time to have them coming back the next day as someone else

13:37
Lizzy Hideho Taylor
can I ask why you both seem so against something that is so valuable?

13:37
Zora McCartney
we are vulnerable
that's it

13:37
Lizzy Hideho Taylor
or COULD be so valuable

13:38
Zora McCartney
in a nutshell

13:38
Lizzy Hideho Taylor
give me a day or two...maybe less
well i WILL be doing the checking and I dont want to lose the info so I am asking you to bear with me...unles you can tell me why we are in major problems today

13:39
Zora McCartney
i think harbouring an unknown amount of pro trolls is a major problem on any day

13:40
Paul Rees
Same here.

13:40
Lizzy Hideho Taylor
and Im saying that what I can do will FAR outweigh any immediate issues

13:42
Paul Rees
It might do. We don't know.

13:42
Lizzy Hideho Taylor
well...lets see...
thats fair isnt it?

13:43
Zora McCartney
waleed himself is still an unknown quantity
i've shown it's possible he is ***** on a pro forum

13:44
Lizzy Hideho Taylor
so lets see if we can prove it...
dont forget...lol...im on your side!

NOTE: Later on Sunday 11th Aug, Martin Rodriguez posted his own OP and commented on Bear Grizz's post re going to Portugal, as discussed in admin chat HERE:

22:53
Frances Gallagher
really\? I am nervous about emailing people
see martin's post on the first thread lol

22:54
Zora McCartney
lol
wind up

22:54
Frances Gallagher
I would say so ...

22:54
Zora McCartney
hoping to start an argument

22:55
Frances Gallagher
Waleed didn't like bear

22:55
Zora McCartney
ah that's right

22:56
Frances Gallagher
naughty Zora

22:57
Zora McCartney
Bear might take offence - again!

22:58
Frances Gallagher
I don't think he will understand what is going on

22:59
Zora McCartney
no but im sure he'll agree it is odd and he's not daft either
Martin won't reply. he didn't the other day

NOTE: In the meantime, Paul and I both received pm's from members concerned about friend requests they'd received from unknown, brand new accounts after posting here

Monday 12 Aug

12 AugustPaul Rees left the conversation.

12 AugustYou left the conversation.

ENDS

By the morning of Monday 12th, when Martin was still in the group, Lizzy still in pm's with Waleed, and her method of IP harvesting not looking quite so straight forward or anywhere near fast enough to cope with the extent of the problem we decided to act. There was a clear difference of opinion as you can see above. Lizzy thought she could get every suspect id into a chat then persuade them to click a link to her forum and felt that this method would be more successful as it may help us to not let in the trolls in the first place (if they could be identified and were not hiding their IPs). Paul and I could see the thinking behind that but felt that there simply wasn't the time and with things happening in Portugal RIGHT NOW and the libel trial on the horizon that we had to act. We thought it extremely unfair on our genuine, honest members to knowingly harbour trolls who could be making friends with them in a variety of guises. Whether you agree or disagree with our actions, we hope that this gives you a greater understanding as to what happened and how it is nothing to do with ego (or race!! as has been disgracefully suggested). Noone can deny the vast amount of work Lizzy has put into collating other's research and making her videos (which have opened many eyes to the case) but let's not forget the MANY others who have, in one way or another, given over a significant part of their lives for 6 1/2 yrs, whether it be translating, researching, running forums, blogging, tweeting or simply reading. It means just as much to them and us as it does anyone else to see justice for Maddie. NOW is the time to get our heads together and see how best we can raise awareness in the build-up to and during the libel trial - with minumum disruption

**any edits above are to protect the privacy of uninvolved parties or is among the evidence going to police

The pros or anyone get hold of an admin adding a load of his own fake profiles AND commenting AND joining other groups incognito...then we're up shit creek

Zora McCartney
it's not personal but we can't have a) admin deceiving each other b)admin infiltrating other groups certainly not without Lizzy's express permission

Mandy-Jane BA Parker Did lizzy found this group? Wasn't it hers to do as she chooses? If you didn't agree with her you should have left and started your own! Not steal someone else's how dishonest and disloyal!! I don't know any of you but find this quite disturbing and the people responsible not trustworthy at all!! X

07:21
Zora McCartney
I just want to be able to get back to the group a bit more again without all this distarction
i would like to keep researching Waleed's possible aliases but it's too big a job for one person
but i'll try to compose something. something concise so we all know what to look out for
Martin Rodriguez makes the same spelling mistakes and punctuates in the same slightly odd way
but i'll see what i can dig up, put it in admin and try to move on

How often before have we heard paranoid lunacy like that from forkers? Pcorneater

13:07
Lizzy Hideho Taylor
well your method can be used later if we have to but WHILE we have time it is absolutely important to arm ourselves with secret weapons

13:08
Zora McCartney
but do we have time?

Gi' O'er ‏@MrsMLouis 3h
@xxxxxFernxxxxx Yes, kind of Zora to provide us with access to HiDeHitler's Secret Bunker conversations! #McCann

Zora McCartney Thanks Ann and Gareth. So glad you can see the predicament here. We never established whether waleed id still a pro but even if he's not, someone who has so many accounts to keep up with is not nearly focused enough on what's coming and no use to anybody. No Lizzy didn't found the group. Noone is denying the massive amount of work Lizzy's done but this episode highlighted exactly why the group is too much for one person to shoulder and why we can't wait around for ever to make decisions. We could have had it all dealt with almost 2wks ago. Not gonna discuss it endlessly. It's all there to make of it what you will

Justin Justice Man so frances knew backed you, but is now admin of another group said multiple profiles person is a member of? thats very strange to me.

Zora McCartney Er NO we don't want pros. They waste our time and derail discussion. Simple

Kirstie Sheena MacLeod I find it more alarming that the IPs are being gathered to the point of pin pointing who the person is etc , I'm personally more grateful that practice is not being done , not that I have anything to hide but its a breach of trust! Maybe people are fine with it , but when someone knows that much they know your address is that not a invasion of privacy? I am curious as to how Frances changed so much! Quite un-nerving since she was all so lovely via PM , I don't think 90% of people here are fake sure most are genuine but you both deserve credit you did the right thing for everyone! So much flack for simply showing you have integrity and doing what's right!! Lets hope people now realize the truth of it and wake the hell up

Eddie Ankeela Look. A geezer with false accounts from this group had signed up with one of those accounts to join a Pro McCann group. If he had of been discovered and linked to this group there would have been fireworks. He could have pulled the trigger anytime. He was EX pro we are told, and who is to say he was not still? I personally think now that I have read the post from Zora that a decision had to be made. That is basically it. Yes? The rest is just moving away from this. High emotions (Been there during this episode) I am satisfied of why things were done. Others have to see it for the simple reason why it was done. Come on people.