PROS AND ANTIS

'THE REAL PROS'

The two factions on McCann long ago adopted names - 'pros' & 'antis' - commonly referring to themselves and each other using these terms.

But is 'anti' a misnomer; a mantle they've willingly taken on to disguise their real agenda? Is being 'anti' McCann what truly defines and motivates them?

Are the real movers and shakers on McCann, the likes of Lizzy, Joanna Morais, Paul Rees, and JillyCL really 'haters'?

I would contend they're not, but instead there are really 2 sets of 'pros' here - 'pro' McCann, and 'pro' Amaral; with the Amaral faction being by far the more ideologically driven.

As such, the real agenda behind the forums and ‪#‎mccann‬ is not, in my opinion, propagating the official police files, nor obtaining 'justice for Madeleine', but instead defending Amaral at all costs. Misrepresenting the contents of the police files, and completely ignoring the conclusions of it's legal summary, is just one way of doing so.

It's easy to lose sight of this in the daily torrent of anti McCann posts, but consider the following -

- No criticism of Amaral is allowed by Hoho's as a 'personal choice' of Lizzy Taylor.

Despite admin's protestations, you can speculate endlessly about the McCanns or anyone connected with them (as long as you don't mention the 'm' word), but woe betide anyone posting inconvenient facts about Snr. Amaral or his team. After a Gestapo like 'Lizzy chat' and secret trial, both the poster and their offending words are airbrushed from history by these champions of Amaral's 'freedom of expression'.

- Newbies are still directed to Amaral's book and documentary rather than the police files.

This despite the fact Amaral lost his libel trial and both book and documentary are currently banned.

- Amaral is the subject of their most transparent lies.

They blithely state torture was never proven in the Cipriano case (a blatant lie), and that Amaral was merely guilty of making a false statement to the court, as though that doesn't constitute perjury.

JillyCL even contends Amaral has never been convicted of anything.

Do they really think Amaral received an 18 month prison sentence for a clerical error, or that he was fined 500,000€ plus interest for hurting the McCanns feelings?

It's simply not credible, so ipso facto, they're liars.

Another outright lie concerning Amaral, which forms part of Hoho's description of their forum, is this; 'Judicial secrecy has prevented the Portuguese Police from releasing information on the investigation so from the START the only information in the media came from Team McCann.'

Lizzy & Co know full well that all the damaging misinformation appearing in the media was leaked by the PJ; as confirmed by Daily Express editor Peter Hill in his witness statement to the Leveson Inquiry, where he memorably described the Portuguese Police as 'behaving like tinpot Ruritanian idiots'.

Hill had the good grace to apologise, but Lizzy just keeps on lying through her teeth.

- They also overlook the most appalling human rights abuses by Amaral's men; the sickening torture of suspects by Tavares de Almedia, and the forthcoming trial of Pereira Cristóvão on charges of armed robbery, criminal association, home invasion, and kidnapping.

- Then there's the nauseating sycophancy and obsequious toadying whenever Amaral's name is invoked:

James Haydon: 'I shared this post in a group for members only, but didn't want to just leave it there. It's written very much with the profound goodwill and abundance of truth and justice intended upon the great man, Gonçalo Amaral - May he rightly win his war!'

Belinda McCarthy Many happy returns to my hero Mr. AMARAL....a man of truth, integrity & ethics......You are an inspiration & a light of goodness in this dark world....Team Amaral to win...!!!

Lizzy Hideho Taylor: 'As one of our members once said... 'Integrity is a word which should have a picture of Goncalo Amaral next to it in a dictionary'

Because nothing says 'integrity' like a conviction for perjury, of course.

- Then perhaps most obviously, there's the Lisbon Libel Trial, which will have no impact on the 2 open criminal investigations, and is a civil matter between the McCanns and Amaral.

Instead, this has assumed immense importance, with 'hot off the press' news bulletins promised by Lizzy to her minions.

As we've seen, even the fact it was a libel trial at all is hotly disputed by many 'antis'. They will concede nothing where it concerns Amaral, however overwhelming the evidence against them.

- And leading on from the libel trial, the £50,000 raised through the forums, ostensibly to fund Amaral's appeal.

Money has never been raised for any other purpose, only to defend Amaral.

As that great sage, Benjamin Arthur observed, in his somewhat 'tired and emotional' leaving address; 'the cause moved away from Madeleine a long time ago'.

Spot on, Benny boy.

'What' they're doing, and 'how' they're doing it is easy enough to work out, but 'why' they defend this corrupt cop and his perjuring, torturing, kidnapping mates, remains one of the biggest mysteries of this most mysterious of cases.

Could it be the real 'pros' are also the real 'shills'?

31 December 2014 ·

At the start of 2014, the debating platform available to those interested in the McCann case was limited to either pro or anti. Pros weren’t welcome in any of the anti forums, and antis were unceremoniously booted from pro forums as soon as they opened their mouths. Late 2013/early 2014, several ‘pros’ joined HiDeHo Controversy at around the same time. Those early few forced several edits to HdH’s extensive guidelines. Viewers saw the rule book updated whenever these few made points that could not be easily countered. Eventually the rules were amended to make it HiDeHo law that neither the dogs, nor Amaral, and eventually none of the PJ could be questioned… all these pioneering pros were eventually removed for ‘disrupting’ the HiDeHo environment, the pro voice, typically, censored.

Halfway through the year, Pamela Gurney was invited onto HiDeHo, and received a savaging from the vast majority of Lizzy’s members. Along with the others, Pam was removed, though she was not the one abusing and throwing insults. The forum landscape was further disrupted by the Oscar Pistorius case, which created vicious debate on all the forums, and showed up serious splits in the anti camps. Lizzy Taylor began to see the need for a debate space which could not be ‘disrupted’ by other posters jumping in with abuse. She created the concept of the one on one debate, and created a forum, and a green room, ready for the first debate. For a long while, no debate was forthcoming… and then a poster called Diane Winch wandered into HiDeHo Controversy. By then, Diane Winch was a lone pro voice, as the others had been removed. Diane was unrelenting and seemed unfazed by the abuse she received. Lizzy and her admin tolerated her for a few days, and then an idea was formed that Lizzy and Diane would have a one on one debate away from HiDeHo Main, so as to preserve the cozy equilibrium of McCann hate on the main forum. A date and time were set, and the McCann community, pros and antis together, settled down in the green room to watch. That date was 9th May, and it marked the start of a revolution in terms of McCann debate on Facebook.

That first night was magical, though Lizzy and Diane were ignored somewhat, as Pam Gurney ‘stole’ their limelight posting in the ‘green room’, which later became known as HdH Debates, and I think everyone saw how satisfying proper debate, where both sides of the argument are represented, could be. Lizzy saw a gap in the market for another branch of her HiDeHo franchise, and gave the forum over to mixed debate. More ‘pros’ joined, and for a while, we were happy together, though Ben Thompson’s warnings were dire. His worry was that if Lizzy gave pros a voice, they would band together and become unmanageable. Bless him, he was kind of right.

Robert Guest burst onto the debate forum on 18th July, and was removed shortly after for claiming 'black was white', and a rule put in place to allow the eviction of anyone who did the same thing. Shortly afterwards, a feisty poster called ‘Robyn White’ joined HdH, a world of trouble ensued lol, Chris Roberts, yet again failed by his own understanding of cadence and verbiage, misidentified Robyn White and horrified the whole community with his vile abuse. Many, many pics of cats were posted and by the 20th August the vast majority of ‘pros’ were removed from HdH Debates in one fell swoop, in a strategic move to stop the fighting, and purge the forum of any trace of Robert Guest, who, it seems, struck the fear of God in Lizzy Taylor’s heart. This forum, Madeleine McCann Debate Group, or affectionately, ‘The Pond’, was born as a result of this mass removal from HdH Debates.

As ‘New Debates’ grew, our aims changed, to include exposing the hate of the anti forums as well as case based debate. We knew we didn’t want to focus on neglect chat, and that has been a constant battle, as it seems it is all some antis wish to talk about, and their sense of entitlement to do so is non-negotiable. We have never been popular for our stance, and we still do not care a bit lol. As far as I know, what we do here is completely unique, and I am pretty proud to be different to all the other forums. The work we do ‘against’ HiDeHo, Justice For Madeleine etc was never going to win us any friends round these parts, but it is important, nonetheless, and it will not stop. In fact, I think you can expect an increase in material we post which is anti ‘anti’ as we push for the closure of the anti forums in 2015.

It was at the time when we were busiest with this hate exposing, that Sky News doorstepped Brenda Leyland. For many antis in the community, our forum came to represent everything that the antis detested, and that they felt had contributed to Ms Leyland’s later demise. Action was taken to try and force an exodus from New Debates. A Scooby Doo ultimatum was delivered compelling members to leave our forum. It was a tough 24 hrs, but we got through it lol, and gained members rather than lost them. The Scooby Doo shame at their ultimatum being widely ignored further hardened the attitudes of the worst abusers, who seemed to wish to stop at nothing to close our forum down. We ignored them, which only made things worse. Many of you will have been targeted with unsolicited pms, and having your profiles, and photos reported. I am proud of you all for rising above it, and continuing to share your opinions with us, and not be bullied into leaving. For some, the targeting and abuse has been worse than for others, and we have lost a few good posters who could not cope with the attacks they found themselves unwittingly under. We wish them all well. We remember too, the excellent men and women lost in the battle of the account reporting. They have used every dirty trick in the book, tricks usually reserved for hating on the McCanns, to try and discredit us as a forum, and the admin as individuals. There are a lot of them, and relatively few of us, but we are Sparta, and we remain unbroken.

We have seen the face of McCann debate change completely over 2014. At the beginning of the year all the main public forums were big and busy and noisy, full of McCann hate, now they appear like wastelands in comparison. Sky News had a lot to do with that, as many of the biggest, busiest, noisiest haters fled to closed groups at that time, now aware that their comments were met with abhorrence by the general public, but I also think we had a lot to do with it too. I am not naïve enough to believe that we have changed the hater’s hearts. I know they are still spewing their hate in closed groups, but out of sight was the best we could achieve at the time. Understand that if you post a hate comment, we WILL see it, and we WILL make an example of you, and you will reflect badly on whichever forum on which it was posted, as we WILL make an example of them too. We want to see the hate groups closed down and we want to see the hate group owners prosecuted for their vile actions.

Massive thanks to everyone who has been here and contributed to our forum. Special thanks to those original pros, who stirred things up so neatly at the end of last year, without you guys none of this would have been possible. Massive props to Pamela Gurney and Diane Winch, for their determination of spirit. Thank you also to the mighty Robert Guest without whom we’d all still be in HdH, being abused for suggesting the possibility of an abduction.

Here’s to 2015…. Let’s make it the year that the overriding message received when an unsuspecting member of the public Googles ‘Madeleine McCann’ out of curiosity, is that there is a very real possibility Madeleine is alive, and findable. Let us make it the year that the hate voice proclaiming her categorically dead is silenced for good.

Happy New Year from everyone at the Madeleine McCann Debate Group.

I don't have a theory of what happened to Madeleine because where a child is concerned I won't play guessing games.
I do believe she was abducted from her holiday apartment,
I have no reason whatsoever to believe she wasn't.
I have read theories in various groups and pages on the internet that are that far fetched and sick they have made my skin crawl and turned my stomach. Some people dont know when to stop with their theories and I truly do believe some of the theory makers have serious issues and should face investigations themselves based on what they come out with and describe, its sickening, no normal persons mind could make up such scenarios let alone vision them then relay them to others in such sordid and malicious detail.

I have read people stating their opinions as facts, using photo-shopped pictures and propaganda.
I have seen a disgraced ex-policeman trying to become a celebrity using the name "Madeleine McCann"
A disgraced ex-policeman who was a known heavy drinker, Wife abuser, who's job involved falsifying statements and corrupting evidence. He worked whilst under the influence of alcohol and drove around with his child beside him in the car whilst under the influence yet this man is praised by those whos minds think of nothing but pedophilia and hate. Who's focus is solely on blaming the parents of Madeleine Mccann, whos mission in life is to turn as many people against the parents as much as humanly possible.
It seems with these 'Anti's' you could be their worst enemy today but if you slur the McCanns you will be their god and praised tomorrow.

The parents made a catastrophic error of judgment and their daughter was abducted. Every child has the right to be put to bed and to stay there without being abducted.

Parents guilty of harming their child do not constantly draw it to the attention of everyone.
Parents do not hire detectives to search for her running the very high risk of being detected themselves.
They certainly do not operate a huge poster campaign and keep her at the forefront of everyones mind.
They do not turn to and ask for the help of the government to carry out a major police inquiry.

What I do have is compassion for a missing child and her family. I have sympathy for that missing child and her family. I have empathy for that missing child and her family. I also realise that no amount of reminders about their error of judgment that night will bring Madeleine back or change what happened. No amount of blame will bring Madeleine back or change that night. But what i do know is that by supporting Kate and Gerry it will spur them on to continue doing everything they can to find Madeleine.

So I ask you, what does your hating on Kate and Gerry achieve?

You may ask what I and others who support the parents achieve. Its simple, our consistent support and encouragement spurs Madeleines parents on to not give up, to always have hope, to keep looking and searching for Madeleine in the hope one day she is found.

Until somebody has firm evidence and can prove what happened to Madeleine I will carry on believing in British Justice which is "Innocent until proven guilty"